Motorcycling is a way of life

[mrdead]

There seems to be several Motor cycle enthusiasts here in the Gizmo community. So I though I'd start a thread where any interested members could throw in their thoughts.
Personally I've been riding since I was 10 years old. It's in my blood. And I love meeting other cyclists.
I ride a Harley Davidson, 2005 Fat boy. I've noticed there aren't allot of Harley fans. For several reasons, Expense being first, and that is undeniable( H.D. actually stands for Hundreds of Dollars)
I'd like to hear any thoughts or opinions and always welcome debate

[Gibbon]

Good thread. I've been riding since i was 14 which is a long time ago for me lol. Started off road, then moved onto road bikes and lost count of the actual bikes i've had over the years. I now ride a brand new Honda VFR 800 Vtec (Interceptor in the US) with full luggage when needed for my trips back to the UK. I'm actually english but live up in Sweden.

Speaking of price, a lot of bikes aren't cheap, even less so up here in volvoland. I appreciate living up here isn't cheap, but the bike prices are ridiculous. I went back to the UK to get my VFR as it was considerably cheaper than buying one here. Handy financial tip, never buy a bike in Denmark, it's the most expensive place in europe to get one, some bikes costing 3 to 4 times as much as anywhere else on the planet.

I have a major bike gang living about a mile away from me and they all ride Harleys bless them. At least the bike gang use their bikes everyday and ride them as they should be ridden so fair play to them for that. They are very popular up here, normally bought by the well heeled who can afford to run them. These guys annoy the crap out of me as all they do is pose on their bikes, showing off the new custom paintjob or designer leather pants on their ageing model girlfriends.

Now i'm not saying the sportsbike brigade are any different, plenty of race leather afficianados there as well with their replica race helmets, even though the riders and their bikes wouldn't be seen dead on a racetrack. And believe me i've seen grown men acting like two year olds while out riding them (i used to be a bike instructor and all i can do is shake my head and laugh) so posing and being a pain in the exhaust is not restricted to Harley owners but to all makes of bike rider.

And before Cadfael says anything as he's a BMW 1200 GS rider, don't even mention the standard BMW riders superiority complex that comes with owning one of those bikes. It's like they think of themselves as royalty just because they own a fine piece of teutonic engineering. Everyone else seems lower to them although that might just be down to the seating position lol

I've mentioned before that what's important is we all like to ride, the riders amongst us anyway and we ride what we want, which is the whole point otherwise we wouldn't have our bike sitting in our garages (for those that have them) ready and waiting for the next trip. There's nothing like riding a motorcycle, period. I know some people don't like them, i don't care, i do and there are many who agree with me. It's a whole new way of looking at the world while zipping along and long may it continue.

Rubber side down people ;D

[Cadfael]

Sept 12, 2010 7:23:54 GMT Gibbon said:

And before Cadfael says anything as he's a BMW 1200 GS rider, don't even mention the standard BMW riders superiority complex that comes with owning one of those bikes. It's like they think of themselves as royalty just because they own a fine piece of teutonic engineering. Everyone else seems lower to them although that might just be down to the seating position lol

;D

good one, though i got my R1150RT back again
I wish i could afford a 1200GS... those are great fun bikes.

I've been driving since i was 23. never driving anything motorpowered on 2 wheels before so I jumpt straight into the serious work.
My first bike was a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500B. I really enjoyed riding it, but in time I drove more and more and even through winter, which wasn't doing very well on the bike.
It's my only transportation so I use it all year round (record was with -10 which is very very cold for my country which has a sea climat). So in 2007 i bought my 1150RT and I can't really think of another bike for my kind of riding. 95% or more of the time its used to go to work and back.

I like driving a bike a lot, makes me enjoy the country a lot more and you are more flexible than driving a car.

[Gibbon]

I'm generalising Cad so no insult intended and apologies for getting your bike wrong lol. It's just what i've noticed travelling round europe for years

[mrdead]

I've noticed that at least here in Colorado BMW's are nearly as expensive as Harleys. They do have a very dedicated group of riders. But most of them do seem to be posers. No offence Cadfael. Something else I noticed Gibbon was talking about a gang of Harly posers and unfortunatly I know entirely to many of them hereabout in the U.S. However most U.S. bikers avoid talking about gangs. Most gangs are outlaw biker types and best avoided.
Harley posers were once kind of an oddity around here. Super rich guys who diden't know what else to do with thier money so they'd buy the most expensive bike they could and parade around acting tough. Me and my friends used to point and laugh. But now days there are so many of them we just sadly shake our heads as they stop and ask for directions. Actualy thats a distinction I've seen between a good rider and a poser. Good riders know where they are going and normaly wave a map.
Traveling is one of the biggest reasons I bought my Harley. A fue years back a good friend talked me in to joining the Iron Butt Association. Joining requires no less than a 1000 mile ride to be compleeted in no less thas 24 hours. Try that on a sport bike (lol). O.K. maybe that isn't fair some sports do alright on long endurance rides, but still you should try it.. Every year we all get together and plan at least a 4000 mile trip and usualy try to compleet it in about a week. I've seen most of the U.S. and a good portion of Canada. Maybe its time to put Europe on the agenda

[Gibbon]

Map, MAP? Surely you mean a gps rofl. BMW's are not cheap anywhere as far as i know. They do make excellent bikes, of that there is no question, and their adventure bike the 1200 GS is the ultimate on/off road adventure bike bar none. Many have tried to better it but all are left trailing in its wake.

Over the last few years i've done a bit of that, or more correctly, me and Crassie, my better half have. We did a trip on a GS all around Thailand, nearly 3000 miles which was an eye opener. Morocco is another one we did recently, from sea level, to over the tops of mountains, to desert, about sums that up really, again on a GS.

I'm thinking back to 2000, 1000 miles in 24hrs, London to Budapest on a Honda VFR 750. I agree not the most comfortable but not as bad as i thought it would be, 5 stops for fuel, averaging over 210 miles to a tank which wasn't bad.

Back to Harleys. I think there's a misconception with these bikes and you can probably include me here as well. To most europeans Harleys are either custom bikes that end up like something out of American Chopper or Easy Rider, or you have to be in a gang to have one, or lastly a posing bike. The majority of owners this side of the pond fall into those categories based on years of observation. I've yet to see a fat boy down at the local supermarket being loaded up with a weeks shopping. I just don't see that being an everyday use type of motorcycle. There are exceptions, of that i have no doubt but not what you call a regular sight. Maybe it's down to the weather, or lack of it over here, i really don't know, and don't even mention the price which is extortionate.

I think that's the main reason a lot of bikers go japanese in europe. I'll give you an example, up here in sweden, if i was to buy a honda, i'd get a 5yr guarantee with it on all major parts, not counting tyres, chain and brake pads. The engines on the best selling bikes are tried and tested, the finish is rolls royce standard (at least on Hondas) and the bikes themselves last for years. They are light, (i'm generalising on most jap makes now), maneuverable, for the most part comfy, give good fuel consumption, cheapish to service and fit the general all rounder category.

There are extremes, the full on sportsbike, useless for anything other than a day at the track, the full adventure bike as already discussed, sports tourers, a happy medium of many styles, (preferred by your favourite Gibbon), the fully dressed tourer type (Honda Gold Wing or equivalent), cafe racers, street bikes, the list goes on. And not overly expensive either, well apart from the gold wing which is over £22,000 pounds. This is the main reason european riders go for either japanese or european makes, the sheer variety of bikes on offer, something wrong if you can't find something that you like.

In our eyes Harleys are big and heavy and follow a tried and tested formula, based partly on road structure in the states, where cruising is the norm and harleys fit that bill. Over here we prefer better handling bikes due to twisty roads, plus speed is also a factor. We like going fast, it's in our blood. My regular touring speed is anywhere between 80/90 mph (130/140 kph) and i get my best fuel consumption at that point. Not happy unless i'm going that speed. If you want to cross countries and continents, the bike (at least in my eyes) has to be able to do that, hour after hour otherwise i won't get on it.

[Cadfael]

I agree with gibbon. theres a lot of difference in roads in europa than the USA.
It's a lot harder to drive big heavy bikes here because of all the curves. And the highways here are very boring and too much cars.

A week ago i did a tour with another 1150RT and we hit a lot of backroads alongside small rivers going mostly 30-40pkh because that was a relaxing speed, just a bit faster than bycicles (we didnt want to make them feel uncomfortabel), it was a busy day too so lots of ppl about.
when touring i find 80-90 a good speed, and at highways its between 120-140.

[mrdead]

When i was in the Army I was stationed in Germany for a time. I did notice the difference in some of the roads, but mostly in the interstate system. Germany may not be the best example because there isn't allot of room for the big interstate system we have here in the U.S. I don't know about the rest of Europe. I haven't gotten to see it, yet. The roads in the mountains of Colorado aren't much different than most of those I saw in Germany. They just have allot more of them. We do allot of mountain riding. Now Harley's are undeniably big and heavy, but in my opinion Maneuverability comes right back to the rider. Several of my friends are police motor officers, they can pull a U turn in a standard parking space on a full dress Electra glide. I'm not saying I can do it, but it can be done. With a measure of practice I'm sure I'll master it as well. At most any bike rally here in the States the sponsors usually plans a skill competition. As these events are open to the public there usually a variety of bikes that enter. No mater the degree of difficulty of the course the Harley riders most all ways win out.
Thus my opinion, Maneuverability comes right back to the rider.
As for jap bikes. They must sell different bikes in Europe than they do in the States. There aren't any old jap bikes still on the road that I've seen. 20,000 to 30,000 miles they start to break down. 50,000 to 60,000 miles their owners throw them away an buy a new bike. Now I could buy a jap bike cheaper than I could put tires on my Harley, but the tires I put on my Harley will out last most jap bikes on the market. Now the one exception I have seen Is the Honda Gold Wing. They are impressive bikes. But I've also noticed they don't have the horse power that most Harley's do. So in the end Harley's Still win out for me.
Something else that been on my mind I'd like to throw out there is the outlaw biker thing. I don't know why my mind stuck on it, but it did. So here's a thought. I have a definitive respect for the law, but first and fore most is because it lays out a ground work for expected behavior
So when we, as strangers, first approach one another we can expect certain things from one another. Such as you can expect I wont try to harm you, or steal from you. And I can expect the same from you. So we can approach not with the trepidation of a potential enemy, But with the openness of a potential friend. With the outlaw types (not limited to bikers) this thought is simply wiped out.
Keep the rubber on the road, Amigos

[Cadfael]

Germany isn't really a good comparison for Europe, because for us its a big country with long straight-like roads. The main structure there is made to drive fast (no speed limit on most roads there), so no sharp bends on there. But i can imagine if you are used to the USA roads germany looks small

And we can hardly park a car in the parkingspaces we have here, let alone make a u-turn with any bike

They also sell different cars for europe than in the usa while they name them pretty much the same, so why not with bikes. It's true that specially sportsbike go about 30,000 miles and then they are considered old. But mostly thats also how it has been used. My bike has about 95,000 miles on it already.
And we also have a lot of bikes here that were made in the 80's, honda CB's, sevenfifties. And they also have a considerable mileage.
So they are pretty decent.
and sometimes you see an oldtimer (bmw R50 or even older)
but i can imagine people don't drive them very often.

it all comes down to regular maintenance and a bit of luck that you're bike doesn't get run over by a car.

[Gibbon]

I don't see Harleys putting out more bhp at the back wheel than say an equivalent Gold Wing as they are notoriously underpowered compared to other makes, but saying that, Harleys have never been about outright performance either. I know the GW puts out 118 bhp, that's based on a 2010 model. It's all about how the power from the engine is transferred to the back wheel, on engine management systems, chain or shaft drive, plus various other factors. If it was outright performance we're talking about then the jap bikes cannot be beaten, least on top speed and horsepower although Ducati are no slouches either. Don't forget Suzuki make the Hayabusa, does 200mph out of the box and is surprisingly useful for everyday commuting as well.

As to riding skill and what can be managed, i agree with practice a lot is possible but let's be realistic, very very few riders can do those things, probably less than 1% of total riders can ride like that. Here are some japanese police officers strutting their stuff on VFR 800 bikes



And just so i stay impartial lol, here's a Harley police bike doing the same,



Very few of us can do what these guys can do, and that's a fact.

Talking about reliabilty as well, have to disagree on things breaking down that early as well. I've seen many bikes with over 100k on them, especially BMW's but certainly not uncommon on jap bikes. Cad mentioned that regular servicing and proper maintenance is key to a long life on a bike, also how you ride the thing is important as well. Because i used to be an instructor i have this habit of rolling on the power as opposed to slamming the throttle open which is why when i traded in my last VFR, it still had the original tyres, chain and brake pads on it after 15k miles, which is unusual i have to say. I change the oil once a year regardless of mileage which certainly helps to keep the engine happy.

As to the whole brotherhood thing, i have to agree that among normal everyday bikers, that is totally true. If it's just having a 5min chat at a petrol station or just bumping into a fellow biker out on the road, there's always conversation, normally bike related of course, something that just doesn't happen with car drivers.

To sum up how i like to ride, here's a dude from Japan again, on the same model bike i have, doing his thing. It's a bit arty but makes me want to grab my keys and helmet. Not sure about his positioning on left handers mind you, if i was teaching him i'd have to have a few words about that lol

[mrdead]

LOVED the video feeds. Totaly with it! BTW the last one happens to be my Wife's favorate song. When she heard it she came over to see what I was doing. After seeing it, her only question was "Why is that guy on the wrong side of the road half the time?" I tried to explain it was a Japenese guy on a bike. Her responce was "He's still on the wrong side of the road Half of the time."LOL ROTF!! God I love her.
I watched both of these vid's a cuople of times through just to be shure. Watch close. The course the Harley officer rides is much more intenceive, If we could put both bikes on the same cource...I'd still bet on the Harley. But I do agree very fue people can ride like that!
Back to reliability, I m shure there are several jap bikes out there that have over 100k miles ,but be shure to ask the owner for the list of repairs made, and those that need to be made. Now my Fat Boy I change fluids and plugs every 3K, I'm on to my third set of tires and my second battery. I have 172k No break downs, none of the problems I see that leave other bikes sitting on the side of the road. I ride year round, baring snow. geting stuck in a snow storm on a bike just stinks. Now I also must add I've never been off road on my bike I do have quit a bit of MX experience. But most of my friends dont like dirt roads. Posers dont want toget thier prissy little bikes dirty
Come to think of it. This is kind of strange. There are only realy 3 kinds of bikes on the road. Touring cruisers (Harley's) Sports (jap rice rockets) High end Euro bikes are are some times missclasified but by most americans lump them in to the sports catagory. Or dirt Bikes, whole different catagory (especialy a KTM super cross racing special, those can out price my Harley)
Gota get going. Still LOVED the vids. Keep the rubber on the road; Mark aka Mr Dead

[Gibbon]

Ok, i'm officially depressed now. Been over a week since i rode my baby (bike that is). Weather has been foul up here, very windy and pissing down with rain everyday. Not the best conditions for motorcycling

So here are some piicies of Morocco instead when we were over there,

[Cadfael]

nice hairpins, but a bit blocky on the walls... you almost think you have to turn in a 90 degree angle
I bet those were loads of fun on the GS.

Weather hasn't really been nice here either, but the weekends were very good.
usually the longest period i dont drive is about 3 days (weekends), and mostly i have to go somewhere in the weekend so my bike is hardly idle.

[mrdead]

Nice! Especially the hair-pin turns. We certanly dont have anything like that around here!
I was thinking of you guys yesterday I went on the last season ride with the Harley Owners Group. I generally dont like riding with them. Most of them are true posers with several harley snobs mixed in (ya think posers are bad...). But their "season " ends in September and dosen't start again untill March. Allot of them tarp their bikes an they sit in the garage. There is nothing more depressing than a covered bike in a garage. Especially becaus the weather around here is moderate and you can ride prety much year round. We do get the occaisonall snow storm that will dump a foot or four of snow. You can ride in January if ya can take the cold. My bones just dont appriciate that kind of abuse any more though.
I can see I'm going to have to get out and get some local road pictures, at least my favorite rides, an get them posted
Keep the rubber on the road, Amigos Mark; aka Mr Dead

[Gibbon]

Now that winter is coming, any of you guys do anything special to your bikes to protect them from road salt or related things?